Owner's only Forum

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Unknownhero
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Owner's only Forum

Postby Unknownhero » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:38 pm

This has been discussed years ago and I thought we should bring it back up again. What do we think of having a Owner's only forum on gamefruit? It would be to discuss game owner issues only. Any off topic post would be moved to other subforums. So it won't be functioning as a private subforum but only for its intended purpose.

There have been previous discussions about it in two different threads.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=733
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=748

I think we could give it a shot as I am also a owner of actively playtested horse sim. I think there are some issues owners can not share with the general public that would come back to their sites and upset their player base. What requirements would we need for owners to have in order to be allowed on the private subforum?

Is anyone against this idea?
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Vulpini
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby Vulpini » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:01 am

I like the idea of a private forum, but I don't think now is a good time for it. As has been brought up in previous conversations, you're at risk of alienating players and people whose games are simply in development, and considering GF activity is still struggling, I don't know it's a good idea to implement something that could potentially push people away. I think if you were really eager for something like this, having a forum or discord server completely seperate to GF would be the best bet.
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Unknownhero
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby Unknownhero » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:10 am

I was busy building the Halloween Event for Dash so I did not have time to give Gamefruit is proper attention it needs. Now that is November I'm able to devote my attention to the forum by saying by the end of this month activity on this forum will increase by a good percentage.

Discord is great for many things but not everyone wants to read about what everyone else is talking about. So its not suitable for many to many discussions. Anyone can make a discord which means there are too many discords to pick from and if you don't join the right discord then you're left out?
It is really about the community and what the forum has to offer that you can't find anywhere else. That is what we'll be working on from this month onwards. I don't think a private owner forum will push people away if they aren't choosing to come. So having or not having a private forum wouldn't make any difference. For a highly active forum that has many users that would make people upset.

The real issue is getting people to come back again and having a owner forum may be just one more thing they want to come back to, at least for the owners.
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trahana
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby trahana » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:19 pm

I agree with vulpini, that's more likely to cause problems. Right now you should be concentrating on getting members here and having a private forum that may cause members to feel shunned is not going to help that.

As a member and not an owner, my feelings are that owners don't share enough with their members. I love it when an owner or admin talks about what is going on behind the scenes. And of course I feel left out when an owner makes a decision to change something without talking about it first, or even bothering to explain. After all, the owners needs players or the game fails and ceases to function. Members are an integral part of any game and being treated like nothing is upsetting.
So I don't like the idea of a private forum. Exclusion is not welcoming. Inclusion is.
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Unknownhero
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby Unknownhero » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:48 pm

trahana wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:19 pm
I agree with vulpini, that's more likely to cause problems. Right now you should be concentrating on getting members here and having a private forum that may cause members to feel shunned is not going to help that.

As a member and not an owner, my feelings are that owners don't share enough with their members. I love it when an owner or admin talks about what is going on behind the scenes. And of course I feel left out when an owner makes a decision to change something without talking about it first, or even bothering to explain. After all, the owners needs players or the game fails and ceases to function. Members are an integral part of any game and being treated like nothing is upsetting.
So I don't like the idea of a private forum. Exclusion is not welcoming. Inclusion is.
I like to answer your question on why owners don't talk to their players about things. Usually because they have been burned once before. At one time in the past they were open and honest with their players/clients/members and it turned around and got thrown in their faces. So they learned to avoid and talk through a filter. Everything said is checked and doubled checked to make sure it does not upset anyone. There was a question on reddit that I would love to find and bring up asking where did all the real game developers go to? The actual people who make and ship games. Well in that case they weren't on reddit or on game development reddits because there were too many non pro-developers there which made them feel unwelcome. They were on twitter...and a few other places that I can't remember, but they were not actively posting on reddit. Why is that? Because public relations and if they say one thing wrong...well guess what? they could get fired for it.

For Owners if they say one thing wrong and half the players throw a fit and quit the game. The risk too great for what can be said. So they learn to talk through a filter and keep things positive and nothing that would push anyone's buttons. It is not something that I would want to do personally yet in the future it will end up happening anyways. It is the nature of being an owner. Players don't really understand that unless they attempt to be owner themselves. For me it is even happening now, I can't discuss new features of my game without players taking them as a given fact when I'm just throwing stuff on the wall. Must I add a disclaimer to stuff that I know probably won't be in the game?
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Vulpini
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby Vulpini » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:08 am

I have to disagree with a lot of that. As someone who is a part of my local indie game dev community, PBBGs seem to be the main genre that owners don't want to talk about. The main group I am in is just one chapter of a nation wide community, and the Facebook page is public, ideas are shared publically, anyone can attend the meetings, etc. Does it mostly attract developers? Yeah, of course, but it is open to everyone. Disagreements happen all the time, but that's a terrible reason for not trying to outsource as much as possible.
As far as your example, that just seems like a communication issue. A disclaimer that you are aware it probably won't be implemented is actually a very important thing. If the players feel like you're going to make the decision regardless they're going to get defensive. Hell, I'd be happy to add 10 disclaimers if it meant my stance on a feature was clear to the players.
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Unknownhero
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Re: Owner's only Forum

Postby Unknownhero » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:39 am

There is an actual local indie dev in your area? I given this some thought and maybe why owners don't want to talk about PBBG is because of the risks of doing so and the political aspect of it all.

Lets say you release a game with player hosted multiplayer on steam and you put up a website. Your website goes down? No big deal, as you can bring it up sooner or later. Players can still play your game on steam and still interact.
That is not so with a PBBG. If your website goes down, players gets upset because they can't access your game. Your site has to be up and fully functional to be playable. If you get hacked, or DDOS your site goes down. You lose time and money. You have lots of stress till the site is back up. And then you have to give stuff away to please players. Your site is always one step away from going down. To keep it running 100% of the time costs some big $$$$ and its not easy to do cheaply. Any downtime will cost you money in revenue or in work done to bring it back up. I'm pretty sure you don't work for free too.

That is why I advocate for a owner's forum. It is a place for owners to feel comfortable to talk and discuss issues they face daily or weekly. The worse that could happen to your steam game is receive bad reviews. That is nothing compared to what PBBG could lose if it went down.
Now that I think about it, it really is a big mess. That also what makes it so political. If your site is a few disgruntled players away from disaster then can you even be honest? If you look at how many processes it takes to run the average PBBG, its one giant security hole.

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